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+--- Thread: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America (/thread-4103.html)
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Duchess - 04-16-2015
I don't share your confidence. Innocent people are frequently found guilty of crimes they didn't commit. I think there are probably people on death row right now who are innocent.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - SIXFOOTERsez - 04-16-2015
Texas whacked a guy last year that there is a lot of doubt about.
I don't doubt that there are a couple on death row that are innocent.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - SIXFOOTERsez - 04-16-2015
The guy I was thinking about was in 2010
http://camerontoddwillingham.com
This guy in March 2000 is a strong maybe
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/wright618.htm
This guy in Ga sept 2011
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/cases/usa-troy-davis
That took about 5 minutes
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - HairOfTheDog - 04-18-2015
The Death Penalty...It's a Gas
Oklahoma governor Mary Falin just signed a bill into law allowing the gas chamber to be used to kill death row inmates with nitrogen.
The method, which involves pumping a chamber full of nitrogen and leaving a prisoner's body to die from lack of oxygen, has been touted as 'foolproof' by supporters, in the wake of the embarrassingly botched lethal injections. It also requires no medical expertise or staffing.
If European pharmacies thought they could push America towards making the death penalty a thing of the past by cutting off the drug cocktail supply several years back, they were wrong -- we're actually going back to the past in order to keep killing prisoners.
So, here's the current execution preferences in the state of Oklahoma:
1. Lethal Injection
2. Gas Chamber
3. Electric Chair
4. Firing Squad
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - HairOfTheDog - 04-18-2015
I wouldn't mind seeing the Death Penalty abolished altogether at this point.
It's so time-consuming and costly to try a capital case, I don't think the death penalty deters the criminally-minded from committing particularly cruel crimes, and there have been too many innocent people wrongly sentenced to death. I'm in the minority on this one though.
![[Image: death5.jpg]](http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2013-11-25/death5.jpg)
![[Image: death3.jpg]](http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2013-11-25/death3.jpg)
![[Image: death2.jpg]](http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2013-11-25/death2.jpg)
I think Life Without Parole and harsher prison restrictions for particularly cruel criminals is probably a better (and more cost effective) option for society, but 2⁄3 of Americans still support the death penalty, even though the majority of them don't believe it's a deterrent.
Anyway, it's a state by state decision, not a Federal one and it doesn't look like a proposal to ban the death penalty nationally would be favored by the majority of the American population anytime soon, if ever.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - ZEROSPHERES - 04-18-2015
I am for the death penalty as long as all doubt about guilt are resolved. It may not deter murders but it guarantees that one won't live to commit another murder. I disagree that life without parole is harsher than death; as soon as a convict gets 'death' he immediately fights to get it commuted to life.. So many convicts have, TV, internet, and social life in the prison environment. Anyone whose death sentence is bargained down to life should be in solitary for that life sentence.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - HairOfTheDog - 04-18-2015
(04-18-2015, 12:59 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote: I am for the death penalty. It may not deter murders but it guarantees that one won't live to commit another murder. I disagree that life without parole is harsher than death. So many convicts have, TV, internet, and social life in the prison environment. Anyone whose death sentence is bargained down to life should be in solitary for that life sentence.
I understand your points and agree that if the death penalty were to be abolished, those convicted of capital crimes should have the same restrictions as death row prisoners have now.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Duchess - 04-18-2015
(04-18-2015, 12:59 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote: So many convicts have, TV, internet, and social life in the prison environment.
...and singing Christmas carols and baking fuckin' cookies too!
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - ramseycat - 04-18-2015
I read a story about a man that has been on death row for 30 years. He was cleared by a new witness.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - username - 04-18-2015
(04-18-2015, 01:09 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:(04-18-2015, 12:59 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote: I am for the death penalty. It may not deter murders but it guarantees that one won't live to commit another murder. I disagree that life without parole is harsher than death. So many convicts have, TV, internet, and social life in the prison environment. Anyone whose death sentence is bargained down to life should be in solitary for that life sentence.
I understand your points and agree that if the death penalty were to be abolished, those convicted of capital crimes should have the same restrictions as death row prisoners have now.
That. I don't think the death penalty serves as a deterrent. Maybe it provides some closure to some victim families but the costs associated with pursuing a death penalty case? Crazy. However, I agree that their prison time should be hard time. No fluff, no priviliges...nada.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Duchess - 04-18-2015
Punishment is supposed to hurt.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - HairOfTheDog - 04-19-2015
(04-18-2015, 04:56 PM)ramseycat Wrote: I read a story about a man that has been on death row for 30 years. He was cleared by a new witness.
![[Image: anthony-ray-hinton.png]](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m3vtdsF_Gn0/VSVsZiAj1DI/AAAAAAAABk8/6IlPV15tFGY/s1600/anthony-ray-hinton.png)
I was very happy to see ^Anthony Ray Hinton finally released, rams.
Hinton's story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/03/how-the-case-against-anthony-hinton-on-death-row-for-30-years-unraveled/
There are more than 150 other death row inmates who have been released as a result of efforts by the Equal Justice Initiative (EJI) and other legal groups like it.
So, how did they wrongly end up on Death Row?
-Bullshit "hair evidence" in the 80s and 90s testified to by FBI agents. Ref: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-forensic-hair-matches-in-nearly-all-criminal-trials-for-decades/2015/04/18/39c8d8c6-e515-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html
-Corrupt police and prosecutors looking to close cases and secure "wins".
-Honest mistakes by police and prosecutors and eye witnesses.
-Incompetent defense counsel.
-False confessions by uneducated, poverty-stricken, easily-led suspects.
^ Those are effin' facts, not bleeding heart "liberal" bullshit contentions.
I think maybe MS meant that he's confident those convicted since 2000 and placed on death row are guilty, due to DNA advancements -- not that those executed since 2000 are somehow all certainly guilty. He's wrong either way. Many of those executed since 2000 were actually sentenced to death in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. And, still today, forensic evidence that can be subjected to DNA testing is only present in about 15% of cases.
Anyway, I no longer believe that the death penalty serves any purpose and I don't appreciate that it costs between 3 and 6 times as much money and double the time to try a death penalty case as compared to one with a max sentence of LWOP. That's true for me even when it's crystal clear that the defendant is guilty as hell, which is the majority of capital cases IMO.
But, if the victim's family wants to invest in the pursuit of a death sentence, I don't object SO LONG AS there is DNA evidence proving guilt definitively and/or there is a verified confession including details only the killer could know.
Abolish the Death Penalty in America or up the bar (retroactively) in terms of proof; either one would be a significant improvement. IMO.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Duchess - 04-19-2015
(04-19-2015, 02:07 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: ^ Those are effin' facts, not bleeding heart "liberal" bullshit contentions.
There will be those who justify it, those who think exactly like MS does. Isn't MS the one who said something to the effect of "he probably would have grown up to be a criminal so it's no great loss"? By that logic you know damn well his son will grow up and ask at least one woman for nude pix and think all brown skinned people from another country have no business in America. THEY ARE HERE TO KILL US.
MS, you ever work for the FBI?
The FBI and Justice Department have admitted forensic examiners from a DNA unit gave flawed evidence at nearly all United States criminal trials spanning 20 years.
It has been reported that 26 employees in the agency's microscopic hair comparison laboratory overstated forensic matches so they favored prosecutors in the 1980s and 1990s.
Research involving the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (NACDL) and the Innocence Project say that 95 per cent of 268 trials reviewed had been impacted.
The Washington Post reported that of the 200 convictions affected, 32 defendants were sentenced to death - 14 of which have since been executed or died behind bars.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Midwest Spy - 04-19-2015
^ wow, I arbitrarily picked out the year 2000, thinking that, by that time, any death penalty conviction would have to be rock solid, and, voila, looks like I'm right again.
My grandfather actually was with the FBI in the late 40's and early 50's. Said he met Hoover once. But no, I've not worked for them.
My own personal feelings about the death penalty?
I want rock-solid, 100% proof that someone is guilty. If not, LWOP.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - blueberryhill - 04-19-2015
Here is my 2 cents worth.....I watch ID channel a lot. I love true life crime and/or mysteries.....but it is bothersome that so many people have been released to in recent years due to technology, i.e., DNA, etc. and groups like Innocence Project which Hair referred to in her post. Thank God for these people. Even when the State is presented with DNA, which proves it was not the person on death row, they will refuse to release person. I see a lot of ego in some of these cases. I would never trust a jury to hand down a death sentence. These people walk into the courthouse with a lifetime of prejudices, biases, etc, but they sit there and deny all of that because, believe it or not, some people want to sit on juries. I could go on and on about a jury I sat on and the two old biddies who caused a hung jury because they said it was morally wrong to drink alcohol. This man was observed by police weaving and stopped him. He admitted to have a couple of drinks at a wedding, but State failed to prove he was impaired. They showed us video of alcohol tests made at the time of his arrest. He walked a straight line and never demonstrated "being impaired." All we had was the visual (the tape) to make the decision and we agreed that State didn't provide enough evidence. We had a hung jury because of two old biddies who believed drinking alcohol was a sin.....and thus, guilty; the rest of us voted not guilty...
I have always believed that a jury should not be able to make a death penalty decision. If we are going to have death penalty (for special people like child murderers, pedophiles who kill, etc), then we should have a panel of Judges who decide this based on evidence presented. Some of these cases make me ill because an innocent person has already been executed. I am always pleased when these wrongly accused people sue the State.....Mistakes happen, but all too often, it is the ego of the Prosecutor who stubbornly refuses to look at new evidence, lab errors, incompetence, eye witness testimonies,(we know now how unreliable eye witnesses can be). Just based on recent findings of death row inmates, being found innocent, maybe is good enough reason to take the death penalty off the table. Only exception would be those child killers, where there is irrefutable evidence of guilt.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Duchess - 04-19-2015
(04-19-2015, 10:43 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: ^ wow, I arbitrarily picked out the year 2000, thinking that, by that time, any death penalty conviction would have to be rock solid, and, voila, looks like I'm right again.
Huh? There is nothing rock solid about flawed evidence convicting innocent people.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Midwest Spy - 04-19-2015
(04-19-2015, 03:46 PM)Duchess Wrote:(04-19-2015, 10:43 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: ^ wow, I arbitrarily picked out the year 2000, thinking that, by that time, any death penalty conviction would have to be rock solid, and, voila, looks like I'm right again.
Huh? There is nothing rock solid about flawed evidence convicting innocent people.
Do you have an example of someone who's been convicted and sentenced to death since 2000 and it's been proven to have been wrong?
If not, you sound like a babbling idiot.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - HairOfTheDog - 04-19-2015
(04-19-2015, 04:39 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:(04-19-2015, 03:46 PM)Duchess Wrote:(04-19-2015, 10:43 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: ^ wow, I arbitrarily picked out the year 2000, thinking that, by that time, any death penalty conviction would have to be rock solid, and, voila, looks like I'm right again.Huh? There is nothing rock solid about flawed evidence convicting innocent people.
Do you have an example of someone who's been convicted and sentenced to death since 2000 and it's been proven to have been wrong?
If not, you sound like a babbling idiot.
You mean other than Daniel Wade Moore, Herman Lindsey, Robert Springsteen, and Carl Dausch, MS?
Look 'em up.
They were all convicted of capital crimes after 2000 and later had their death penalty sentences reversed on appeal and/or in light of new evidence.
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Duchess - 04-19-2015
(04-19-2015, 04:39 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Do you have an example of someone who's been convicted and sentenced to death since 2000 and it's been proven to have been wrong?
If not, you sound like a babbling idiot.
Here's a few examples of men who have been convicted and sentenced to death who had their convictions overturned. There are many, many more.
You don't have one single clue, do you?
John Ballard Convicted 2003 Released 2006
Daniel Wade Moore Convicted 2002 Released 2009
Herman Lindsey Convicted 2006 Released 2009
Robert Springsteen Convicted 2001 Released 2009
Carl Dausch Convicted 2011 Released 2014
RE: DEATH ROW--death penalty in America - Duchess - 04-19-2015
Fantastic.
