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+--- Thread: walking while black - Trayvon Martin (/thread-7569.html)
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RE: walking while black - IMaDick - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 01:59 PM)Disciple Wrote: Sorry about the first post. Misfire on my cell phone.
I'm sure it was because time was of the essence and whatever it took to complete the post within that certain time frame was worth it.
For what it's worth I forgive you.
RE: walking while black - Adub - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 01:45 PM)Cracker Wrote: I don't think you would say that if you had to worry about a break-in every time you went to work. You don't live in a high-crime neighborhood. It isn't stalking when someone is watching to make sure you don't steal something. It is a sad fact of life.
I don't think Zimmerman lived in a high-crime neighborhood. The crime report for the past 6 months is part of the evidence.
RE: walking while black - IMaDick - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 02:02 PM)Adub Wrote:(05-20-2012, 01:45 PM)Cracker Wrote: I don't think you would say that if you had to worry about a break-in every time you went to work. You don't live in a high-crime neighborhood. It isn't stalking when someone is watching to make sure you don't steal something. It is a sad fact of life.
I don't think Zimmerman lived in a high-crime neighborhood. The crime report for the past 6 months is part of the evidence.
Which in reality means little or nothing.
In the end all that matters is why he pulled the trigger.
That is what the charge is based on.
RE: walking while black - Adub - 05-20-2012
I think it is a bit more complicated than that Dick. Especially since Zimmerman has been charged with 2nd degree. Maybe if Zimmerman goes for an SYG immunity hearing it would be that simple, but even then I doubt it. The prosecution is going to be all up in Zimmerman's mindset. Why he was doing what he was doing. Would a reasonable person have acted the same. Those kinds of things.
RE: walking while black - Lady Cop - 05-20-2012
slippery slope introducing "mindset" i.e. motive. motive is never a required element in a murder case. only facts in evidence. juries like motives, but they are of no legal consequence.
mindset (fear) would be relevant in an immunity hearing.
RE: walking while black - Cracker - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 01:56 PM)Disciple Wrote: Probably just heard of it and just HAD to use it.
Yes, that is it. Thanks for teaching me how this whole web thing works.
Should I send nudes to everybody who PMs and asks? Because I haven't figured that out yet.
Thank again for your help. I value your input.
RE: walking while black - Adub - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 02:30 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: slippery slope introducing "mindset" i.e. motive. motive is never a required element in a murder case. only facts in evidence. juries like motives, but they are of no legal consequence.
mindset (fear) would be relevant in an immunity hearing.
Maybe I am using the wrong word. I am not talking about state of mind.
RE: walking while black - IMaDick - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 03:27 PM)Adub Wrote:(05-20-2012, 02:30 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: slippery slope introducing "mindset" i.e. motive. motive is never a required element in a murder case. only facts in evidence. juries like motives, but they are of no legal consequence.
mindset (fear) would be relevant in an immunity hearing.
Maybe I am using the wrong word. I am not talking about state of mind.
The only way a "state of mind prosecution" would hold any authority is if they try to prove a hate crime.
RE: walking while black - Disciple - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 03:27 PM)Adub Wrote:(05-20-2012, 02:30 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: slippery slope introducing "mindset" i.e. motive. motive is never a required element in a murder case. only facts in evidence. juries like motives, but they are of no legal consequence.
mindset (fear) would be relevant in an immunity hearing.
Maybe I am using the wrong word. I am not talking about state of mind.
I think that the word you're looking for is "intent".
Every crime has elements. A prosecutor must prove each element beyond a reasonable doubt in order to have a lawful conviction.
Almost every crime has an intent element, whether it be intentional, reckless, negligent or something similar.
RE: walking while black - Duchess - 05-20-2012
Was that even George's community?
Hell of a time for me to ask, I know.
RE: walking while black - HairOfTheDog - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 04:25 PM)Duchess Wrote:
Was that even George's community?
Hell of a time for me to ask, I know.
Yes, he lived in the gated community, I believe. Trayvon was visiting with his dad whose girlfriend lives there.
RE: walking while black - ZEROSPHERES - 05-20-2012
I think the father's girlfriend lived nearby but not in the gated community. The gated community was in between the store and her home. Trayvon used it as a shortcut.
RE: walking while black - HairOfTheDog - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 04:18 PM)Disciple Wrote: I think that the word you're looking for is "intent".
Every crime has elements. A prosecutor must prove each element beyond a reasonable doubt in order to have a lawful conviction.
Almost every crime has an intent element, whether it be intentional, reckless, negligent or something similar.
Yes. The difference between manslaughter and 2nd Degree Murder is the element of intent. This is why I am waiting to hear all of the evidence held by the prosecution before assuming that Zimmerman was wrongfully overcharged or that the DA strategically charged high to get Zimmerman to plead down. Either may well be the case, but it could also be that there is circumstantial evidence pointing to premeditation/intent.
P.s. Zero, thanks for the clarification about the shortcut.
RE: walking while black - Adub - 05-20-2012
Zero was wrong. They both lived in the gated community where Trayvon was shot straight through the heart. Trayvon was not just cutting through. He was staying there with his dad.
RE: walking while black - Adub - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 04:13 PM)IMaDick Wrote:(05-20-2012, 03:27 PM)Adub Wrote:(05-20-2012, 02:30 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: mindset (fear) would be relevant in an immunity hearing.
Maybe I am using the wrong word. I am not talking about state of mind.
The only way a "state of mind prosecution" would hold any authority is if they try to prove a hate crime.
State of mind would be momentary, right? Like fear? But someones mindset would be more like how they view things.
RE: walking while black - IMaDick - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 05:54 PM)Adub Wrote:(05-20-2012, 04:13 PM)IMaDick Wrote:(05-20-2012, 03:27 PM)Adub Wrote:(05-20-2012, 02:30 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: mindset (fear) would be relevant in an immunity hearing.
Maybe I am using the wrong word. I am not talking about state of mind.
The only way a "state of mind prosecution" would hold any authority is if they try to prove a hate crime.
State of mind would be momentary, right? Like fear? But someones mindset would be more like how they view things.
State of mind can lead in several directions, but to prove a hate crime at least to me the state "Prosecution" would have to prove a pattern of hate not just a one time occurrence that someone looks suspicious and that suspicious person turned out to be Black or some other nationality different from Zimmerman.
In most cases I think racial slurs have be audibly heard for a hate crime to have real teeth.
RE: walking while black - shitstorm - 05-20-2012
Anyone know where 'hate crime" and 'hate speech' (i.e., thought crime) laws came from and the agenda behind them? They were designed to protect ONE group of people and it wasn't blacks.
RE: walking while black - shitstorm - 05-20-2012
I think Z was a busy body. He didn't physically attacked T. He followed him (perfectly legal). T did attack Z. I don't think SYG your means you get to attack even the worst busy body, even when they're all up in your space. Once T jumped Z, Z became the victim who defended himself - even though this all began because of Z following T.
Not guilty.
RE: walking while black - Adub - 05-20-2012
(05-20-2012, 06:03 PM)IMaDick Wrote:(05-20-2012, 05:54 PM)Adub Wrote:(05-20-2012, 04:13 PM)IMaDick Wrote:(05-20-2012, 03:27 PM)Adub Wrote:(05-20-2012, 02:30 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: mindset (fear) would be relevant in an immunity hearing.
Maybe I am using the wrong word. I am not talking about state of mind.
The only way a "state of mind prosecution" would hold any authority is if they try to prove a hate crime.
State of mind would be momentary, right? Like fear? But someones mindset would be more like how they view things.
State of mind can lead in several directions, but to prove a hate crime at least to me the state "Prosecution" would have to prove a pattern of hate not just a one time occurrence that someone looks suspicious and that suspicious person turned out to be Black or some other nationality different from Zimmerman.
In most cases I think racial slurs have be audibly heard for a hate crime to have real teeth.
I never paid any attention to this being a hate crime. The prosecution is not claiming that it was a hate crime. Just that Zimmerman acted out of a "depraved indifference" when he shot Trayvon straight through the heart.
Still can't believe how clean Zimmerman's clothes look in the police photos.
RE: walking while black - username - 05-20-2012
SS, How do you know Z didn't touch or grab T first?