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WHY? - Duchess - 06-08-2014
Why does America feel it's her duty to run around the world and tell others how to live? Why do other countries have democracy pushed on them? Would you have a problem with someone coming into your home and telling you how it should be managed?
Would it be overbearing of me to tell you I don't like how you raise your kids and how sucky it is that you only vacuum once a week and that the ponytail you're wearing sucks ass?
RE: WHY? - ramseycat - 06-08-2014
America is too big for its britches sometimes.
I just vacuumed yesterday dammit.
RE: WHY? - SIXFOOTERsez - 06-08-2014
Some things I think we should take in hand, like the pirate thing in Somalia.
How often Ramsey vacuums the floor, not so much.
Cutting the clits off of young women, yep, think we should step in
Assholes shipping guns and terrorists, nukem
RE: WHY? - Cutz - 06-08-2014
Short answer: World War 2 and Britain's shrinking ballsack.
RE: WHY? - SIXFOOTERsez - 06-08-2014
to be fair, WW2 what got us in the game was the fucking japs.
Might have happened if not for Pearl Harbor, but would have taken a while.
RE: WHY? - SIXFOOTERsez - 06-08-2014
And Britain has had a shrinkage problem since 1776, the atlantic is cold afterall
RE: WHY? - Mohammed - 06-09-2014
Democracy is a funny thing, it gave us Hitler after all.
American Democracy is funny too, for to establish it one just has to wipe out pretty much all of the native population, then let some disgruntled guys who got shipped over from Europe because they had it with those fucking royals over there, take over and come up with a system that makes everybody equal. Except of course those pesky natives which must be .... well, eliminated.
Looking around here, sometimes I actually think it would be a good idea. Wipe out all these fucked up idiots here and start brand new. It worked in Australia, the States, and looking at Sydney, Seattle and San Francisco, it seems to be a fabulous way to go. America is already starting the process, judging by all those daily drone strikes, but clearly it has to pick up the pace a bit. There are about 24 million folks here, they kill 10 people per week on average, that's gonna take a shitload of time before we can start a proper democracy process. Around 46.000 years to be exact. They breed faster than that!
Funny thing is that if you look around here, Democracy is the last thing you want. Why? Because the majority of people are dumb, clueless idiots who will follow anybody who will provide them with a plastic bucket. Especially if it has a nice, bright colour.
Democracy gave us Khomeini. You bring democracy into these areas and you will quickly find out who is the leader of the biggest tribe, or in another entertaining scenario you will have all the tribes fighting each other for putting their very own leader on the top shelf.
Oman is beautiful because it got one leader, even so he is gay, whom everybody loves as his main priority is the well being and future of his country and people. So does Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and also Qatar, even so everybody hates those new rich fuckers. They behave like those Hillibillies that just moved into Beverly Hills.
And America knows that. America does not bring everybody democracy! America does not care about democracy being equally spread across the countries of our planet! No, America is somewhat selective in whom it will bring the golden gift of democracy, or else Saudi Arabia would be in real trouble.
I think I talked about the Pirates of Somalia before. They initially started due to the illegal fishing that was done along their coast by the Italians, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, and quite a few more. Fishing was still somewhat acceptable, but once the world started also dumping all the crap nobody else dared to have in their own waters right next to Mogadishu, that was it. No decent Somali fishermen would have his family all glowing in the dark, so something had to be done.
On top of that the British were just in the process of training a Somali coast guard, so one thing led to another, good amounts of money got involved, and who wouldn't want to go for a nice sailing trip and come back with a 100k. It created quite the chaos up in Puntland, the horn of Africa and Somalia, where tribal elders suddenly had the problem that all the old ways of living got blown out the windows as you had now 20 year old boys driving around with Land Cruisers and acting like 50 Cent.
So what did the British do? They took advantage of their old trainees and went now into the insurance business, protecting the ships from their former colleagues, even greeting them on sea. True story.
Wherever you find trouble, or trouble being created, it's all about the Benjamin's. Just ask Cheney, he's an expert in that.
RE: WHY? - Cutz - 06-09-2014
(06-08-2014, 07:57 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: to be fair, WW2 what got us in the game was the fucking japs.America's involvement in the war is not why we're policing the globe, more the example of the war. After WW1, all the European nations were so timid in order to avoid a second world war, that they let Germany grow and start it anyway. America had been enjoying that isolationist movement that other countries are enjoying now, but Pearl Harbor just woke the dragon. We really scared Japan so bad that we wouldn't still be involving ourselves around the world if it was purely a reaction to us being attacked in WW2. It's more the example that WW2 broke out because nobody wanted to police other countries for fear of another world war.
Might have happened if not for Pearl Harbor, but would have taken a while.
That said, of course I'd prefer America to defend other countries than to attack other countries... i.e South Korea as opposed to Iraq. I don't feel we have a right to dictate what types of governments should oversee other countries, but at the same time, those nations that throw rocks at America's foreign policy of involvement only do so enjoying the freedom it ensures.
RE: WHY? - Blindgreed1 - 06-09-2014
(06-09-2014, 10:58 AM)Cutz Wrote:Well stated Cutz. There's a bit more to the whole Germany growing thing, but that pretty much covers it in a nut shell.(06-08-2014, 07:57 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote: to be fair, WW2 what got us in the game was the fucking japs.America's involvement in the war is not why we're policing the globe, more the example of the war. After WW1, all the European nations were so timid in order to avoid a second world war, that they let Germany grow and start it anyway. America had been enjoying that isolationist movement that other countries are enjoying now, but Pearl Harbor just woke the dragon. We really scared Japan so bad that we wouldn't still be involving ourselves around the world if it was purely a reaction to us being attacked in WW2. It's more the example that WW2 broke out because nobody wanted to police other countries for fear of another world war.
Might have happened if not for Pearl Harbor, but would have taken a while.
That said, of course I'd prefer America to defend other countries than to attack other countries... i.e South Korea as opposed to Iraq. I don't feel we have a right to dictate what types of governments should oversee other countries, but at the same time, those nations that throw rocks at America's foreign policy of involvement only do so enjoying the freedom it ensures.
RE: WHY? - crash - 06-09-2014
God bless 'murica..
RE: WHY? - Blindgreed1 - 06-09-2014
(06-09-2014, 05:05 PM)crash Wrote: God bless 'murica..Grenada
RE: WHY? - HairOfTheDog - 06-09-2014
(06-09-2014, 01:17 AM)Mohammed Wrote: America does not bring everybody democracy! America does not care about democracy being equally spread across the countries of our planet! No, America is somewhat selective in whom it will bring the golden gift of democracy, or else Saudi Arabia would be in real trouble.
I think I talked about the Pirates of Somalia before.
Well, Mo, we wouldn't want to bring anybody anything they didn't really want, right? That would be pushy!
And, not everybody's qualified for our brand of democracy anyway.
I know I posted this video somewhere a couple of years back -- it fits here (plus, it makes me smile and I loved the Team America movie).
Sometimes it's very clear to me why the US is involved in matters outside of our borders. Other times, there's so much going on behind the scenes -- often involving several countries and/or organizations -- that I know I'm being fed rhetoric rather than the real deal/goal.
I don't think there's only one or two reasons why America (and the British, and NATO, and our other allies) get involved or intervene in how other people live (and die); I think there are some consistent factors and many case-specific ones, too. But, there is one reason that has historically always been foremost no matter what, IMO. The United States wants (and usually its allies want, as well) to bring something from the intervened's land home, or the United States fears something from the intervened's land being brought here. Historically, intervention has rarely been a case of national altruism or humanitarianism at play. But, that's hardly an America-unique characteristic.
Sometimes our intervention is regrettable and selfish -- effing up things for a lot of other people (and ultimately ourselves). But, sometimes our intervention, selfishly-motivated as it may be or seem, does promote greater future safety at home and for our allies, IMO.
Anyway, I think the tides of intervention-rationale are changing as a result of the new perceived #1 enemy, terrorist networks, being spread out across regions. Foreign relations and State/Defense Department focus is less country-to-country defensive/offensive oriented with clear cut lines, allies and boundaries than has been the case historically -- there's now also a good deal of focus centered on hotbeds where these somewhat nomadic or splintered networks of enemies thrive and reside.
Also, the internet providing much more rapid and expansive global news coverage is resulting in a stronger public cry for intervention, even when there is nothing immediately recognizable to gain at home. For example, the team of US, British, French, and Chinese specialists in Nigeria trying to help Johnathan and the military get the Boko Haram network under control and save the abducted schoolgirls. So far, that reluctantly-welcomed international intervention doesn't seemed to have helped Nigeria -- the girls are still missing and Boko Haram has murdered hundreds of people since the international specialists arrived on the scene -- but, at least the effort is underway.
Also, the efforts of US Senators to bring Miriam Ibrahim to the US under asylum, rather than have her face a death sentence in Sudan for marrying her Christian husband (a US-citizen originally from Sudan).
One thing that can always be counted on, then and now: when the US does get actively involved in a situation going down in another country, there are always a lot of loud voices around the world screaming heavy-handedness on the part of the brutish Americans (I'm one of those voices sometimes). When the US doesn't get actively involved in such a situation, there are always equally loud voices screaming that the US should be leading the global charge and we're showing weakness by holding off (I'm less often one of those voices).
Anyway...speaking of global relations. You told me a couple of years back that you and your family would come to San Francisco some day and do a road trip along the California coast. More recently, you posted that you wouldn't bring your family outta Yemen to such a dangerous country as the US. Well, I hope you were serious about the first and not the second. We have no drone attacks here, after all (yet)! If Six volunteered to be your traveling body guard (and let you wear the long Elvis robe on the bitch seat of his Harley for a while), I'm thinking maybe you can still be lured?
RE: WHY? - Mohammed - 06-10-2014
Darling, if there's one thing I learned on my travels across the globe not as a tourist but being blessed to be able to become part of the culture while spending a few years in each place, is that there are plenty of idiots no matter where. It's an integral part of humanity to have nice folks and massive fuck ups. Integral and unavoidable.
Sure, sometimes the percentage of each changes, meaning for instance Munich has 80% nice people and 20% fuck ups, unlike Manchester where it is the other way around. But generally it doesn't matter if you are in California, Poland, or out on an oil rig in the North Sea, there will be a fucked up guy!
So yes, it is nice to bitch about all the evil that certain countries do just for bitching's sake. Like the English of course, which is made even that much easier because they are ugly, but then looking back it also brought plenty of good to the world. Just like America. I might not agree with their methods and utterly selfish ways, because even USAID is there for political reasons and not only to provide bags of corn to starving folks, but! They also provide good things. Like Jack Daniels and some of the recent beers that come out of the USA. On top of that, having worked with the US Embassy here for quite some time, I have to say that my life long theory of Americans being so wonderfully shallow, when you meet them they behave like you are the biggest gift and most beautiful addition to their life, yet when you part ways, you're just out of their mind, unlike most Europeans or most other nations really.
But! You Yanks all know that of course, hence manage to come up with stuff where you take the shit out of yourselves, i.e. Team America "Fuck Yeah!", which we started watching with our daughter as it looked like something out of "Die Augsburger Puppenkiste", which was utterly famous during my childhood in Germany where you had all those lovely Marionettes bopping across the TV, only to start wondering when those very Marionettes started to get into some seriously kinky shit. Literally. Then again, American comedy is somehow addicted to such. You would never find a stinky mop or floating turds, or somebody peeing over a face in Black Adder or Fawlty Towers.
Yeah, America is without a doubt the most dangerous place on the planet, all of you living there just manage to ignore that fact in such a lovely fashion, but still, if all goes well we will definitely come and do our California tour. Even more so since you can buy Glocks and Sig's over the counter there for prices you just dream about here.
I am still looking for the perfect place on the planet and judging from the way things are going, all the countries I've been in, it looks like I'll have to get my own island and do it myself.
I will get me one of those rubber dinghy's and start up the raving buccaneers movement! Har har matey
RE: WHY? - HairOfTheDog - 06-10-2014
I don't know, Mo. I've been a few places as more than a fleeting tourist and wouldn't say that America is the most dangerous with the most shallow people in the world.
Hard for me to rank such things. What's considered dangerous and shallow can be highly subjective. I'd think that Yemen was more dangerous on the whole, but it might not look that way to you, sitting heavily armed in your secured home enjoying a poolside cocktail. The eye of the beholder and all.
I've also found the 80⁄20 rule to apply to hold true in most group situations. And, shit humor isn't typically funny to me, but anything mocking it and other shallowness typically makes me laugh. That's probably why so many people tune in to Colbert and Stewart. Gotta laugh at the absurdity of reality sometimes, it's a sanity-keeper.
Anyway, I like people who can visit or live just about anywhere; doing what it takes to avoid making themselves easy targets without failing to see and taste all of the good things and people around them. Doesn't matter whether one's in Yemen or California -- not much point in surviving if you're not gonna make the best of it and enjoy life, IMO.
RE: WHY? - Mohammed - 06-10-2014
Absolutely and perhaps the most crucial and necessary requirement for anybody who choses a colorful life out of the ordinary. To learn to even enjoy some of the most fucked up situations and never loosing ones sense of humor.
Well, Yemen is dangerous indeed. Temporarily!
It is a new phenomenon that has spread throughout the country after all that fucked up revolution, which was supposed to bring in a new golden era yet looks like it just fucked everything up on a massive scale. We have 6km lines of cars in front of petrol stations since 2 months, and nobody knows when it's gonna get better. Since 2 months electricity is a luxury and you have it around 5 hours a day. So you have generators. But then there's also no petrol. And no gas to cook or at least the price went up, like for everything else. The Finance Ministry has not paid the budget for their national oil company in 8 months. The Foreign Ministry has issued a letter to all foreign institutions, EU, UN, NGO's, that they can not guarantee the safety of their expats anymore. It's a first for me.
However, it is terribly tranquil at the same time. Strangely so, or perhaps even Al Qaeda has run out of fuel.
But if there is any danger here, it is calculated one, as it is about targets. I can still handle that. You know what to look for or are pretty much constantly watching out. What I find more disturbing is what I call "Surprise Fuck Up", like walking into a shopping mall or movie hall and some mad man is going berserk. And that's where the States are clearly leading I believe.
You go to Columbia, you expect to maybe end up in the middle of a shoot out. You take a walk thru Mexico, same thing. But you take your family for some ice cream and fried chicken and suddenly face somebody more equipped like the boys in Iraq believing he's on a spiritual quest, now that's just highly disturbing.
Now something like that would never, ever happen over here. Matter of fact, when we came to this country and how it was back then, I never felt as safe as quickly as here. No matter if that was Hong Kong, Sydney or little, serene Wiesbaden. Here you could walk around any time of the day, all smiles and welcome around you, the little one could be outside without any thoughts as any and every house would take absolute care of her. Which I actually just realized a few days back is a problem, as we visited our neighbours, the boys from the German Embassy, who all of a sudden said "You know, you got to teach your daughter not to go with every man or?" as that is very normal in Germany, I know it from myself as well as the way my first daughter was raised there, and which came from the fact that Jade is just very comfortable and trusting with any guy who is around us, which made her spend hours with the bodyguards in their guard house like it was the most normal thing.
The Germans found that .... peculiar. It comes from the safety you had here.
But yes, all that is gone now. She can not go outside the house that is equipped like a castle. We ourselves are now fully at home, working from here, which also explains why I'm more often here now. There's suddenly so much time in my days.
All that is missing now is my large order which should be arriving in 3 months. After that I most probably won't give a fuck if they bomb the shit out of this place while I'll make sure to make the best of it!
After all, it's what we do best
RE: WHY? - HairOfTheDog - 06-11-2014
You wear it well, Mo. I'm glad you've adjusted to the new (and hopefully short-term) climate there and got all your ducks in a row for maximum safety and maximum fun for you and your beautiful family.
I think we discussed briefly some time back what Damascus was like up until 3 years ago; effin' shame that a beautiful, international, cultural center with many people of different religions and backgrounds living side-by-side in one of the top-ranked Middle Eastern cities is now a war-torn capital.
It's amazing to me how quickly things can change when a revolution, an insurgency, a coupe...is ignited with just the right wind blowing. I'm not saying that's always a bad thing in the long term, but there's almost always a huge cost to pay in the short term and whether or not people there are better off in the end is hard to measure and often debatable, even amongst themselves.
It seems that's there's always something coming to a head somewhere. President Obama announced the full pull out of American troops from Afghanistan week before last and transferred five Taliban leaders out of detainment in Guantanemo Bay and into "monitored movement" in Qatar. Ok, so we're winding down a decade's plus mission (how that mission is labeled depends on where you're sitting).
BUT, then, of course, last weekend, the Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for seizing the Karachi aiport (twice) and some other attacks near the capital that left a bunch of people dead. Their message: they don't like the Pakistani government collaborating with the west, they want Sharia law implemented, and they've not been rendered impotent as was implied by the global press weeks before the attacks (that last one is my opinion of one of their motives, not something they specifically claimed).
Jesus, I'm hoping the US doesn't pull out of Afghanistan only to wind up shifting next door shortly therafter, same shit different place. It won't surprise me if it happens. If it does happen, will the US be right or wrong for intervening again? IDK. In any case, I hope to be surprised.
Anyway, hoping Yemen gets back to where it once belonged, though it's great to have you posting a bit more. That's a sincere (and also selfish) sentiment from this shallow American -- we have our moments of conflicted clarity.
RE: WHY? - Mohammed - 06-11-2014
Hey, I didn't say ALL Americans are shallow!
Just about 95% I guess. Anyway, every time I hear Damascus it makes me laugh. I'm sure I mentioned it before but it works every single time as it reminds me of my dear friend Wael, who is from Damascus and who was sort of my assistant here when I opened our former restaurant. When the revolution started here he was raving and bitching about these people here and how obviously fucked up they are going thru that crap with all that bombing, etc. So when he had it, he packed his bags and returned back to Damascus
What would actually happen if the US pulls out of Afghanistan? Would it create a global disaster? Would it affect your shopping or weekend parties? Would sales of Apple and Burger King plummet? Prices of crab cakes in San Francisco sky rocket? Wall Street collapse perhaps? Would Afghanistan with the help of those lone Uzbekistan rangers and anybody else from those plentiful fuckistan countries around become so big and powerful that they could end up contemplating invading the US of A? What is there that you obviously give such a massive fuck?!
Monitored movement in Qatar is actually quite funny. The Taliban got some posh offices there since many years, not far from the US base really, and evidently the Qatary Taliban utterly enjoys any sort of monitored movements they might be having there as they have become so used to the lush shopping malls and life style of Qatar. I even heard that Gordon Ramsey's new joint at the St. Regis in Qatar got a fiercely broiled Taliban T-Bone with a side order of Sharia Slaw and a half baked Potato on the menu. Naturally all super halal and served fully covered in a Burka.
Today was an exciting day here. From our high vantage point, I'm living in a four fucking floor villa after all, we could see the city starting to burn down in those areas where the peasant folk lives, mainly close to the petrol stations. They started burning rubber tires, finally something, and then started to march across the city close to the former Presidents Palace, where the old man still resides.
So now the current President fired half his ministers, Foreign Minister, Oil Minister (which is wonderful news), Finance Minister, Electricity Minister, and a few more.
I so need my booze container to arrive! .... wake me up, when September comes ....
RE: WHY? - Maggot - 06-11-2014
Mo is a gas man!
RE: WHY? - HairOfTheDog - 06-11-2014
Oh, Mo, fo sho -- I'm the wrong person to ask as to what's going to happen when the US pulls out of Afghanistan.
I'd love to be able to tell you with any degree of confidence what exactly we were doing there in the first place and why we're still there. I know the reasons cited by both administrations, pundits, and internet commenters -- but I find it all rather murky from a logic standpoint. My limitation.
Yeah, releasing the Taliban to Qatar for monitored movement, after 12 years in Gitmo, has gotta be almost as good for them (maybe even better) as being released freely to their homeland. Very wealthy beautiful little country Qatar is said to be. I don't oppose their release, however. Holding prisoners indefinitely without filing charges and without due process rubs me the wrong way.
Anyway, pulling outta Afghanistan is the right thing to do, IMO -- it won't directly affect me personally in the short term regardless. Mostly there are independent little restaurants and cafes in my neck of the woods, rather than chains. I don't eat at Applebees or Burger King (though an occasional Jack In the Box taco is my right, damn it!). And, I don't like to shop -- though I did splurge for a new bottle of garlic-infused olive oil in Gilroy last night. I shall undoubtedly think fondly of you when I lightly rub it on a nice piece of beef.
RE: WHY? - Maggot - 06-11-2014
Surgically implanted GPS trackers stashed in the terrorist that were released would be a good idea.