01-06-2015, 11:47 AM
That makes more sense than post 188. Thanks for responding, Six.
Few things...
The cops chose the distance; they were still rolling when Tamir started walking towards them. They're the trained professionals, not the 12-year-old.
Initially, like you, the officers blamed their tactical error (approaching so closely) and aggression on Tamir. They claimed he was with a group of people, picked up a gun from the table, and put the gun in his waistband when they approached him -- a scenario which implied the officers needed to immediately neutralize a clear and present threat to themselves and possibly others. That scenario was a lie, since retracted. The officers now acknowledge they shouldn't have approached so closely and blame the slippery grass.
In neither of the officers' versions was Tamir "brandishing" when they approached him. Your version of what went down, in post 188, is the only time I've seen that claimed. It's false. Tamir had the toy gun in his waistband when the cops arrived on the scene and it was still there when he was shot. He never picked it up and never pulled it out, so it couldn't have been brandished.
Tamir's mom asked for the surveillance video to be released to the public, she wasn't trying to hide her son's actions. She has asked for a transparent unbiased investigation and the truth. She deserves that, whether your guess that she's a bad parent has any merit or not. I'm glad the mayor and many others agreed that the Cleveland PD isn't the right organization to be investigating itself in this highly contested shooting death.
So far, I haven't heard Samaria Rice condemn cops or make it a race issue -- she's questioning the officers' tactics and competency. She wants to know why her son was shot so quickly; why the cops didn't afford themselves time and distance to assess the situation. Very valid question which so far points to police error.
That police error doesn't ensure that investigators or a grand jury will find the shooting unjustified though. It could turn out that the investigation finds the officers performed miserably and violated procedures, but that it's reasonable to believe Officer Loehmann feared for his life when he pulled the trigger. That would mean a non-criminal justified shooting, but possibly a strong wrongful death claim in civil court.
In any case, I've seen no one involved in the case or commenting here suggest that this was a murder (aside from smart-ass Cutz, in jest). Negligent homicide -- maybe. Murder -- huge unsubstantiated stretch.
It's a sad and interesting case, regardless of the races of those involved, I agree with you there. But, I disagree with your assertion that "these people" are unreasonable in pushing for independent review and evidence in this case. The county sheriff's office has taken over the investigation and will have its findings ready by end of February. I'm anxious to hear them.
Few things...
The cops chose the distance; they were still rolling when Tamir started walking towards them. They're the trained professionals, not the 12-year-old.
Initially, like you, the officers blamed their tactical error (approaching so closely) and aggression on Tamir. They claimed he was with a group of people, picked up a gun from the table, and put the gun in his waistband when they approached him -- a scenario which implied the officers needed to immediately neutralize a clear and present threat to themselves and possibly others. That scenario was a lie, since retracted. The officers now acknowledge they shouldn't have approached so closely and blame the slippery grass.
In neither of the officers' versions was Tamir "brandishing" when they approached him. Your version of what went down, in post 188, is the only time I've seen that claimed. It's false. Tamir had the toy gun in his waistband when the cops arrived on the scene and it was still there when he was shot. He never picked it up and never pulled it out, so it couldn't have been brandished.
Tamir's mom asked for the surveillance video to be released to the public, she wasn't trying to hide her son's actions. She has asked for a transparent unbiased investigation and the truth. She deserves that, whether your guess that she's a bad parent has any merit or not. I'm glad the mayor and many others agreed that the Cleveland PD isn't the right organization to be investigating itself in this highly contested shooting death.
So far, I haven't heard Samaria Rice condemn cops or make it a race issue -- she's questioning the officers' tactics and competency. She wants to know why her son was shot so quickly; why the cops didn't afford themselves time and distance to assess the situation. Very valid question which so far points to police error.
That police error doesn't ensure that investigators or a grand jury will find the shooting unjustified though. It could turn out that the investigation finds the officers performed miserably and violated procedures, but that it's reasonable to believe Officer Loehmann feared for his life when he pulled the trigger. That would mean a non-criminal justified shooting, but possibly a strong wrongful death claim in civil court.
In any case, I've seen no one involved in the case or commenting here suggest that this was a murder (aside from smart-ass Cutz, in jest). Negligent homicide -- maybe. Murder -- huge unsubstantiated stretch.
It's a sad and interesting case, regardless of the races of those involved, I agree with you there. But, I disagree with your assertion that "these people" are unreasonable in pushing for independent review and evidence in this case. The county sheriff's office has taken over the investigation and will have its findings ready by end of February. I'm anxious to hear them.